Operation Persian Storm Sortie 2

[309 Geoff]

Fly safe tonight chaps.

[Richard Rodgers]

Get the drinks in Geoff. We will be back in good time

[Flyco]

Copy of my input in the general Missions topic: Am I being unreasonable?.

Well the AI aircraft had a good day! The A-10s, on the other hand, didn't.

Both Pontiac Flts got airborne on time, and made it to their planned heights. Pontiac Flt 1, got to 22,000 ft to start their AA hunt, Pontiac Flt 2 stayed at 12,000 ft and 5 nm to the rear to mop up the (by then - we hoped!) unprotected AFVs. At this point I was lit up by some F-14s (which I had assumed to be part of blue force, who had gone in to shoot down the baddies for us), followed very rapidly by launch warnings. Both the 1-Flt A-10s beamed the incoming missiles, even as we got a call from high, telling us to head east and hit the deck. We both went for the deck, and Richard would like to apologise for the sonic bang he put out - I popped my airbrakes and didn't exceed 450 kias. The second Pontiac Flt, were not so fortunate and got taken out by the second salvo from the F-14s. The cavalry arrived soon after and went head to head with the F-14s. On the subject of our (alleged) air cover, I must commend the AI F-15s which were holding immaculate formation just to the east of us - I do hope we didn't disturb them.

1 Flt sculled around for 5-10 minutes at 250 ft in the hills, before we got the all clear to resume our mission. Unfortunately it took us 10 -15 minutes (and a lot of fuel!) to climb back to height and re-locate the targets. We then spent the next 30 mins dropping sundry blue hardware on the red hardware. Between the two of us, I estimate that we got around 12-15 targets. I found that some of my 'smart' weapons were in fact not so smart - although I was probably little sharper. Richard even went head-to-head with guns - but I was not that brave. With all our weapons expended and No 2 at min recovery fuel, we headed for base. Unfortunately, fate had not finished with us, and Richard came to a sudden stop when the computer threw him off-line. I spent the next 20 minutes RTB-ing, landing after 2:10 in the air, with around 1500 lbs.

The task itself was not too bad - a bit different, and not as straight forward as some we have had of late. With only 4 ac, we never had enough ordnance to kill all the enemy, but a lot of them apparently gave up along the route, without any interference from us. Additionally, I had some very wild bombs, as, I noticed did Richard - whether this was the system or finger-trouble I am not sure (probably a mixture of both). What I am sure about is that the CAP was entirely inadequate, and late. I am unconvinced that AI CAP (Artificial Intelligence - Bah, Humbug!!!) is worth considering. Finally, there was no adequate brief about what CAP, or enemy fighter threat we could expect. There is an increasing concern about adding 'bells and whistles' and un-necessarily long outlines of the 'background intelligence', during the build up to the mission. I am also unconvinced about the ability of a 'mission manager' to try to run aspects of the mission in real time.

[Duke]

Alan, I provided a Google brief over a week ago outlining the threats from air F14, Mig21 and Mig29. The AI were only there as a backup and didn't work, if they were not there it would have been the same result for 97sqn because as I said in my other post Scooby was the cap, his game crashed and he didn't bother respawning. Neil was shot down by an SA15 and Father Cool tried to take on the two F14s but got shot down himself.

The mission provider is exactly that, I give you the targets and a briefing. I asked if you wanted a briefing and no one did therefore you were happy with the Google briefing provided.

I am not an on call gci or awacs however when I saw it all going wrong I gave you instruction to go defensive, turn away from the F14s and descend, which from what I saw kept you alive as before that you just kept heading straight for the enemy F14s firing at you.

But yes clearly I'm inadequate at making the missions so I shall not worry about putting in weeks of effort for the last one.

[Flyco]

Duke, I have no wish to upset anyone. I am afraid that my de-briefs are always 'robust', I see no point in praising stuff that does go well, and a lot of value in identifying where any shortcomings are to be found. I have also gone back over the 4-5 pages of posts about this mission, and apart from the initial outline brief I found nothing which I would consider a full brief.

I have said that I liked the concept, but even you must accept that things did not go well. I do not consider myself an accomplished mission writer but I do try and build in options such that if (for example) a Blue CAP does not turn up I tone down, or don't even trigger, the Red air that they were due to engage.

I will remind you that I suggested at the start that for a 'mission master' to try to make changes during a mission (such as controlling a Red AI unit) is going to be too onerous a task - for anyone. I hope you will not stop creating missions, just because of a single 'grump' like me.

[Luis]

thank you for the debrief and for the time dedicated to the preparation of the mission. As for AI's "intelligence", I wouldn't say they don't know what they're doing. At least they knew how to choose the most novice to slaughter first and without any mercy... me.

[Flyco]

Not at all Luis. Knock out the most dangerous element first.