Debrief 2015/3/24

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Matej Pipiska

Debrief 2015/3/24

Post by Matej Pipiska »

Hi guys,

I decided to write a debrief on the group sortie of ours today, as I have to say I quite enjoyed it for a reason or two.

I'll summarize the session how I see it went from my perspective and I'll try to provide some points why I liked it.

I started in a group of 3 - Nelson, Keith, me. Our task was to clean out the threats on enemy airfield. We weren't sure which airfield it is, we had a guess Mineralnye Vody, but our IP was at Nalchik and as we were flying there the airfield (Nalchik) was taken over by enemies so we decided to clear the threats there. Our loadout was mainly to kill anti-air threats and armored vehicles with the remainder of our weaponry. Our loadout was 6x Maverick D versions, as when we looked out of the hangar we could see thick clouds up there. We were flying light to be able to dodge Tor missile threat.

Before we took off, Keith had some issues and had to get out. So it was just me and Nelson. I am sort of used that half of my flight gets killed or disconnects mid-flight, so this was still within the boundary limit (just 33% loss, right?). We took off and headed slightly off course, since we needed to climb quite high (we were expecting a Tor threat) and there were also quite high mountains below. The clouds were -thick-. They were from about 17500-22000 feet. TGP even on IR mode was blind and it was clear we'll have to go lower if we want to see anything. Somewhere still on the way to our first waypoint we got a spike of SA8 and descended in spiral to get into shooting position (this maneuver was quite interesting, but it worked!). It was impossible to find it only based on RWR signal. Keith got back and he was playing around with Lotac. He also warned us about the threat. Afterwards he provided us with the position and the target got cleared (Nelson went in while I was 'observing' from distance. Shots were fired on both sides and Nelson stood victorious).

As I was returning towards Nelson I heard him start screaming something and it was unclear what's going on for a while. Keith was reporting something he didn't know what it was and as it turned out it was enemy SU25T attempting to kill Nelson. From what I understood, it originally got on his tail but shot from some distance (the SU25T was Ant that was listening to us on TS and was on Red team). While I was rushing in with sidewinders warmed up, Nelson managed to get on the tail of SU25 and one sidewinder and some gun fire made it go down. We then proceeded to assess the threats on Nalchik. First, Nelson cleared a big part of infantry with guns and mavericks, then we continued cleaning tanks and BMPs. We knew the SU25 will be coming back sooner or later. We were communicating our runs on the targets and I guess that might have helped the SU to find us. I was down to 2 mavericks and turning away to make some distance between me and target area again when I saw Nelson flying below me with lots of gun trails behind him. I knew ground was shooting at him, but then it turned out there was also the SU25. Aagain I turned in to catch his assailant but I was late (and far/slow) to the party. Nelson reported the enemy was high and I was getting worried as I dropped quite a bit and still didn't see him. Nelson seemed to be safe for the moment and was flying away from the zone (diverting to Beslan, with his tail and wing quite damaged, if I remember right). I decided to climb up in the clouds to hide from the SU25. I flew around for a while when I realized my TGP can still see the targets. After a while of silence I decided to fire my 2 mavericks from the clouds. The radio also went quite silent. Personally, I wanted to make the SU25 think I was still searching for it, then fire the mavericks in one run and keep searching/fly away. We relayed the information that enemy SU25 is in the area to the other flight and after going winchester I briefly descended below clouds. I quickly came to conclusion this 'hide and seek' is more dangerous for me than for the SU25, I climbed back in clouds and followed Nelson who diverted to Beslan ~55 miles out. We both landed safe.

It was a lot of fun.

Now why I think it was fun.

1) The small flight/package size. It was feeling more.. what to call it. Intimate. It was just me and Nelson, covering each other. Clear comms, a bit of fun here and there. 1st goes in 2nd covers. Etc.
2) The Lotac influence. That was really nice. While I don't want to have someone giving me the coordinates all the time, this really helped. We cleared the one anti-air threat, were warned about the manpads on the way towards the threat (we had none of this in our waypoints, they were in middle of nowhere) and left the rest of column (artillery) intact. Later when chasing the Su25 I was also warned about me approaching the enemy airfield which was holding air threats. I was provided with approximate location and it was easy to dodge it then.
3) The threat of Su25. Now it's not like I want constant threat, F15 or Su27 would be way too much, but here I had to look out for it, and at the same time I knew it's not an easy task for him to find me either. I knew I can hide in the clouds and I knew he can be defeated. I saw him going in su25 at the mission start so I took sidewinders. I knew he has no radar and can only eavesdrop on us (actually I forgot about that one for a while). It kept me on my toes and the encounters made the whole thing interesting.
4) The weather. That put me out of my comfort zone. We were expecting to go hunt Tors, then we found out we can't take H mavericks and can't see anything unless we descend below the clouds. Had to work around that.
5) My flight lead didn't die (yay).
6) The combination of above in the right amount. The challenges were in the place but they were manage-able and only pressed 'just enough' to make it interesting/challenging yet doable and satisfying. I came out with a feeling that we took care of each other with Nelson together, we fought Su25 (well, mostly Nelson, but the thrill and quick reactions of rushing in to help was there), it didn't stop us from doing our task (even though had to change it a bit mid-flight) and managed to get out alive, while doing all this in wind and the highest column of clouds I've ever seen. I guess the diversity of it all helped, too.
7) (bonus) Now that I am thinking about it.. I actually liked the fact we went in with the idea - we take 6 Mavericks and our task is to clear anti-air threats, then kill what we see. Afterwards we can go back to re-arm and come back with 'big' weapons. We might have needed some cluster bombs to clear the infantry more efficiently, but this made us think how to approach this in a different manner.

In any case. The whole flight 'only' took 2:10 hrs, but I found it very satisfying and fun. I am not sure, how it went for the other flights and how they perceived it, so I am happy to hear that side of the story as well.

Have a good night :)

o7

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Neil Willis
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Re: Debrief 2015/3/24

Post by Neil Willis »

I'm glad it went so well for you guys.

My only gripe was that the Su-25T was a serious threat to ending missions early, but it seems you guys wanted the threat added. An area for further discussion I think.

Our mission was also low key, with initially 4 aircraft rapidly reduced to 2 due to ground fire.

I'd like to see just single elements deal with individual target objectives more, and we can certainly set up missions with the squadrons widely dispersed so it is just you and your wingman with a challenging environment to cope with. The only difficulty then would be having the comms separated to individual elements will rapidly take up all the available frequencies, though we can of course try using 1 or even 0.5 MHz separation and see how that goes.

I'd like us all to raise our game to much higher standards, and I'd like to see the more experienced among us passing on your skills to the newer guys, which is where Wednesday night sorties could come in.

Overall, I think last night went well.
Group Captain Neil Willis - RAF Air UKImageImage
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ericarchie

Re: Debrief 2015/3/24

Post by ericarchie »

Although I had family in and out through the evening, I have to say how interesting "eavesdropping" on the mission had been. The Su attacks were quite gripping for me, with Nelson's voice raised in genuine surprise/ stress and then his ensuing radio silence as he fought the threat. Something very sinister was portrayed by the SU25 addition. It felt a little like listening in to a wartime ops room.
For me it was a really good experience as all of this simulation is very new to me, I am amazed at how real it gets including aircraft dropping out with tech problems and navigation and weather uncertainties.I have certainly learned a great deal.
Thank you to all for allowing me to listen in.

Chilts

Re: Debrief 2015/3/24

Post by Chilts »

I'm pleased it went well, although for me, at least initially it wasn't so great! I had a TS failure requiring a PC reboot before even starting and then a DCS fail just prior to take-off.

Whilst running a scan I decided to try LotATC and the rest, as they say, is history....

I must confess that I observed the SU25 track but thought it was AI or a bug (it had no info on the label) and therefore didn't bother pointing it out, even when it flew underneath Nelson as he attacked the SAM! It was only when I heard the panicked transmission from Nelson I realised it was real - so apologies.

However, despite the day job, I found it quite rewarding providing the support and learnt a lot, and although not flying, it was fun.....

David Lindau

Re: Debrief 2015/3/24

Post by David Lindau »

Good fun all in all!

We had some minor issues during the start up, taxi and takeoff.
There was several acknowledging "number" calls missing. (neither me or Neil called em out like we should have)
Exterior lights cock-up's (myself included)

(On start-up, navigation lights to flash.
When ready to taxi, taxi light on. (nav still on flash)
When taking the active, Nav to STEADY, Anti-collision on and Gear-lights to landing.

I had a look at the tac-view file,

Neil I got you at approx 11 700ft AGL and straight over them when they launched at you (all three SA-18).
Iglas qualify for maverick run's in my world (especially when they are standing right next to a MBT).
Cannot recall if I specified weapons on the attack order. But remember to add the type of weapon you intend to use when calling in-hot.
That way other people can pick up on improper weapons employments, and also know when to expect rifle calls.

Link to what happens when the wrong Brevity is used in AGM employment.
https://youtu.be/VDJGAKLTLb8

One of the few highlights, that actually worked as planned.
https://youtu.be/JGlnYny5FtY

Some AA action.
https://youtu.be/eygjcpqnTYs

My 2 cents
/David

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Neil Willis
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Re: Debrief 2015/3/24

Post by Neil Willis »

Can't disagree with that assessment David, very poor weapons choice and tactics on my part. I just wasn't expecting air defences in that situation.
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