Op Separatist Aggression - Day 3

David Lindau

Re: Op Separatist Aggression - Day 3

Post by David Lindau »

Haven't heard anything from command yet, but I'm pretty sure I'm going to be posted in some red-neck guards unit for my (teddys) crimes.

Unfortunately my gun-camera was out of drive space, otherwise I would have posted my GAU-8 shilka kill.
Spend some time looking for him after he spiked me on my first run, failed to get a tally on him.
On my second run all the vehicles started moving and suddenly there he was in the middle of all the stacks and moving vehicles, waggled the rudder and hosed down the area. Unfortunately my S/A was again shit's, so I did an climbing egress right over the town where I had previously seen you taking tracers. They capped my left engine which due to the low speed at the end of the egress pull resulted in a flat-spin :shock: . Recovered at a couple of hundred feet, and limped back to base.

/D

User avatar
Neil Willis
Site Admin
Posts: 2940
Joined: 27 May 2014, 14:44
Location: West Midlands

Re: Op Separatist Aggression - Day 3

Post by Neil Willis »

Yep, it was a great sortie, but for that mission, we certainly needed at least 2 full flights, and four would have allowed us to hit all the objectives.
Group Captain Neil Willis - RAF Air UKImageImage
ImageImageImage
Image

Flyco
Site Admin
Posts: 1909
Joined: 11 Jan 2015, 14:30
Location: York

Re: Op Separatist Aggression - Day 3

Post by Flyco »

Yes, we few were clearly overwhelmed by the tasking. However, the tasking from the ground was pretty awful. Where was the 'Inguri Dam' and which town were the enemy in the centre of? Realistic confusion by the 'brown types' is all very well, but I am quite capable of getting sufficiently confused without any help. At which point I must thank my flight members for their tolerance - I was truly well below par last night.

In my defence I would again appeal for more planning and a final definitive flight briefing - it need only delay departure by 5 mins. I would also like to see common SOPs. I will try and get something down on paper, but among my thoughts are: All loaded operational take-offs should be stream not close formation - we can play at red Arrows another day when an engine failure by the lead is not going to write off a full flight and (with our weapons load) possibly the runway. The only ac to call after T/O should be the tail ender, who calls wheels up once he has completed after take off checks so that the leader knows he can set heading for the target area.

Transits should by in tactical formation 2000 - 6000 ft between aircraft within a flight - the ADL allows good station keeping and height checks. Speeds and powers should be standard - Full power for T/O, back by 2% for climb with either a standard IAS (200KIAS) or a standard attitude - given the excellent A-10Cs's TVV and limited autopilot a fixed climb attitude of 5 degrees reducing by say 1 degree every 10K. All hts above TL should be FLs i.e. FL150, not 15,000 ft. Although not necessary in real life, sim limitations mean that it is useful for the lead to call significant heading changes. A more relaxed transit would allow pilots to do internal checks, and start an early search for targets. I am not clear whether it is standard for the leader to call for fence In checks - it seems sensible to me, but I don't see any need for flight members to confirm them complete - But do them early - at least 10mins/40 nm before the target area to give time to sort out problems (Why, oh why, are LGBs initially set up in the DSMS as CCIP, Auto Lase Off - or am I missing something).

I am gradually becoming able to enter co-ordinates in flight without reading from a check list, and, given time (which isn't usually available!) picking up someone's transmitted SPI. But I am still finding it difficult to get the TGP pointing where I want it - I have not yet sussed out how to set SPIs using the TAD Cursor without taking for ever - any help anyone? Still no-one said it would be easy and war is supposed to be hell!

Getting more and more hooked with every flight, thanks to all the efforts of the members. See you next time (unless I lose you again on the climb of course)

Final thought - given the limitations of ground FACs/JATCs, any though to an experienced pilot getting airborne early with max fuel and smoke markers, climbing to 25K above the target and acting as target marker, using voice or smoke. Use of a dedicated common frequency controlled strictly by him would be very advisable.
Wing Commander Alan Johnson - RAFAir UK
Image
Image Image Image Image

David Lindau

Re: Op Separatist Aggression - Day 3

Post by David Lindau »

Flyco wrote: Transits should by in tactical formation 2000 - 6000 ft between aircraft within a flight - the ADL allows good station keeping and height checks. Speeds and powers should be standard - Full power for T/O, back by 2% for climb with either a standard IAS (200KIAS) or a standard attitude - given the excellent A-10Cs's TVV and limited autopilot a fixed climb attitude of 5 degrees reducing by say 1 degree every 10K. All hts above TL should be FLs i.e. FL150, not 15,000 ft. Although not necessary in real life, sim limitations mean that it is useful for the lead to call significant heading changes. A more relaxed transit would allow pilots to do internal checks, and start an early search for targets. I am not clear whether it is standard for the leader to call for fence In checks - it seems sensible to me, but I don't see any need for flight members to confirm them complete - But do them early - at least 10mins/40 nm before the target area to give time to sort out problems (Why, oh why, are LGBs initially set up in the DSMS as CCIP, Auto Lase Off - or am I missing something).

I am gradually becoming able to enter co-ordinates in flight without reading from a check list, and, given time (which isn't usually available!) picking up someone's transmitted SPI. But I am still finding it difficult to get the TGP pointing where I want it - I have not yet sussed out how to set SPIs using the TAD Cursor without taking for ever - any help anyone? Still no-one said it would be easy and war is supposed to be hell!

Getting more and more hooked with every flight, thanks to all the efforts of the members. See you next time (unless I lose you again on the climb of course)

Final thought - given the limitations of ground FACs/JATCs, any though to an experienced pilot getting airborne early with max fuel and smoke markers, climbing to 25K above the target and acting as target marker, using voice or smoke. Use of a dedicated common frequency controlled strictly by him would be very advisable.

My 2 cent's.

- Transit and Climb
2% under full RPM does not give other flight members room enough to obtain a decent tactical formation (unless you want to wait a long long time).
This especially in a climb as if the following aircraft, if they have throttled back for some reason will not regain enough energy to achieve positive closure rate? (i think)
If we rewrite SOP's regarding T/O I would prefer a FAN speed % number over the RPM settings as those needels are easier to read.
I do think that T/O procedures and communicating these are the flight leads responsibility. Altho we should have limitations regarding weather conditions set in SOP's.

- Fence checks.
I always do this leading a flight and if I'm on a wing request or state fence in.
Read-back "2 fenced in 065", provides the fuel state to the lead. This gives the lead and flight the ability to roughly calculate if (depending on load/drag) if any aircraft is heavier/lighter than the rest of the flight. (relates back to the point above)
Also let's lead-aircraft visually check that wing has set the correct config on the exterior lights. (default off, but leads prerogative).
Sometimes as lead I make an informative call, stating, Masterarm-on, TGP-On, MAV's on, Counter measures on, Jammer set XXX, Exterior lights State.
As it seldom hurt's and sometimes help's.

- TAD cursor
Use, china hat fwd short, to set TAD to EXP-2 mode.
When slew'ing the cursor zoom out to be able to travel quicker across the map. (DMS down/up)
Zoom in when the cursor is getting close to the mark you are looking for.
Set SPI by using TMS up LONG. (your wedding cake should appear on the mark you "aimed" at.) (might be that you need to hook it first TMS up short, but I don't think so)
If you are not trying to select a mark on the TAD, place a mark-point (TMS right short) and then set that as SPI.
I'm happy to talk/fly you thru this at any time.

- LGB's
I normally don't change default (ccip) DSMS settings on the LGB's.
I set my TGP to LATCH-ON.
HUD as SOI (cloolie-hat back?).
Hold down coolie hat fwd to show weapons select menu (temporary as long as you hold the coolie)
DMS left-right to choose GBU stations.
Change to CCRP using master-mode switch.
Set_SPI, Line_up, Aim, Pickle,
Turn laser on when the impact counter reaches 20-15 sec's remaning.
Laser off when target is splashed.

- Yes some FAC-A, would be really nice.
It does however have-to fit into the mission scripting/type of mission.
As they need to get on station before the other flights to gather S/A and plan the attack.

/Cheers
David

User avatar
Neil Willis
Site Admin
Posts: 2940
Joined: 27 May 2014, 14:44
Location: West Midlands

Re: Op Separatist Aggression - Day 3

Post by Neil Willis »

Just a small point on GBUs

It is usual to set up your weapons profiles as part of the start up procedure. I always select each weapon type in the DSMS and then go through the profiles and change anything as required.

For GBU12s, that means going to the DSMS, selecting the profiles page, scrolling to the GBU12 entry, selecting CCRP, then pressing CHG SET, selecting Auto Lase on, and entering a lase time of 6 seconds, then save profile.

Then when you wish to select the weapon with that profile, either go to the profile page, scrolling to GBU12, and press activate profile, or make the HUD SOI, and scroll to the GBU 12s. You cannot select the profile by clicking on a weapon station in the DSMS.

As far as SOPs are concerned, I am happy for any procedure to be used - especially if it conforms to what the real world pilots would do.

I am afraid this series of missions is not the best constructed, and there are a lot of issues with it. I just grabbed it, adapted it, and ran it. FACs and tactical situation maps etc are something that mission designers definitely need to encompass if we are to have full immersion, and participation. Mission construction is definitely not my forte I am sorry to say, but if anyone wants to put a mission, or series of missions together, then we're always glad to employ them.
Group Captain Neil Willis - RAF Air UKImageImage
ImageImageImage
Image

User avatar
Neil Willis
Site Admin
Posts: 2940
Joined: 27 May 2014, 14:44
Location: West Midlands

Re: Op Separatist Aggression - Day 3

Post by Neil Willis »

David Lindau wrote:
Flyco wrote:
Turn laser on when the impact counter reaches 20-15 sec's remaning.
Laser off when target is splashed.

David
You only need to fire the laser 6 seconds before impact.
Group Captain Neil Willis - RAF Air UKImageImage
ImageImageImage
Image

David Lindau

Re: Op Separatist Aggression - Day 3

Post by David Lindau »

Neil Willis wrote:
David Lindau wrote:
Flyco wrote:
Turn laser on when the impact counter reaches 20-15 sec's remaning.
Laser off when target is splashed.

David
You only need to fire the laser 6 seconds before impact.
*3 to adjust for my Aim :).

Shooting the laser earlier should give the bomb more time to pick it up? and in effect more time to manoeuvre?
Or is the range of the seeker head limited to approx. 6 sec?

Flyco
Site Admin
Posts: 1909
Joined: 11 Jan 2015, 14:30
Location: York

Re: Op Separatist Aggression - Day 3

Post by Flyco »

Neil & David,

Thanks for your responses. I have started to put my thoughts down on paper and will trawl through the several sets of SOPs available to refine them. I will also seek inputs from RAF Air members.

I'm with you about best rpm indication to use David. The manual recommends Fan rather than Core speed as a best indicator of power - I will do some flight testing to come up with a suitable reduction! I can also see no objection to the leader prompting fence-in checks, although personally I would probably do them as soon as I safely and reasonably could, so as to include the TGP for early use - even so I often forget to put EO power on!

I do usually remember to put auto-lase on during after start DSMS checks - it's simply that I cannot see why you would not want it on by default. Is there any advantage to lasing manually? As for lasing time, the manual says in 2 different places that the optimum lase time is 8 secs and 12 secs - so I set 10! Ideally in the target area you want to transmit as little potentially detectable energy as possible, but so far I don't think anyone has developed an IR-pointer homing missile.

As for marking with the TAD Cursor, as I read it you can only mark when you put it over a TAD symbol and hook it. I'll try that again to check. I do have the Warthog HOTAS and still find all the switchery a handful - I dread to think how much more of a problem it would be with my old X52.

If I can find a suitably gullible couple of members I might volunteer to lead a flight shortly and test some of my theories on the unsuspecting souls. (I quote from an Army Officers Confidential report... " The men would follow this officer anywhere - although I suspect from a morbid sense of curiosity).
Wing Commander Alan Johnson - RAFAir UK
Image
Image Image Image Image

User avatar
Neil Willis
Site Admin
Posts: 2940
Joined: 27 May 2014, 14:44
Location: West Midlands

Re: Op Separatist Aggression - Day 3

Post by Neil Willis »

Love the quote Alan!

I too would love to see some things changed to become the default settings. I suspect that some can be set within mission planning, but with 16 aircraft to configure, it'd be a lot of work I think (assuming that weapons profiles can in fact be pre-set).

One thing about fencing in early is that you'd naturally turn on EO at the same time, and you really need to restrict missile readiness to no more than 20 mins. However, there is nothing stopping individual pilots from adopting their own methods of course. To my mind, the lead pilot calling the Fence in at least reminds everyone to do it, though it is of course entirely up to flight leads what they do in that respect too. Ideally I'd like to get to a situation where the same people fly in the same flights ever mission, so you can pair up with someone and always know your call signs and flight positions. Unfortunately we have had a fairly high turnover of aircrew, and just when things start to look settled, it all goes base over apex.

Keep the comments coming, you are giving us plenty of food for thought.
Group Captain Neil Willis - RAF Air UKImageImage
ImageImageImage
Image

David Lindau

Re: Op Separatist Aggression - Day 3

Post by David Lindau »

Flyco wrote: As for marking with the TAD Cursor, as I read it you can only mark when you put it over a TAD symbol and hook it. I'll try that again to check. I do have the Warthog HOTAS and still find all the switchery a handful - I dread to think how much more of a problem it would be with my old X52.

If I can find a suitably gullible couple of members I might volunteer to lead a flight shortly and test some of my theories on the unsuspecting souls. (I quote from an Army Officers Confidential report... " The men would follow this officer anywhere - although I suspect from a morbid sense of curiosity).
- TAD
Yes you need "something" to place the SPI on in the TAD, (unlike the TGP where you can SPI a ground reference point).
Sometimes I manage to SPI the Hook (don't know how), which can be very confusing :?

- Gullible
I'll fly your wing any day Alan.
Also let me know if you need a wing to do test for T/O and power settings on the climb out.

/D

Post Reply

Return to “Briefings”