tue 26/5 senaki op2 debreif/suggestions box

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john (scooby)
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tue 26/5 senaki op2 debreif/suggestions box

Post by john (scooby) » 27 May 2020, 03:32

how do you guys think we did as a group?
and what do i need to improve as lead?

dcs was playing silly buggers as always which delayed takeoff a little.
i felt we were pretty cohesive overall.
we broke orders when it became apparant that the mig 29s had broken through the cap but they were too close, was i late with that call?

sharky did well, staying with me and and going after the bombers too, we were far too late though through no fault of ours, maybe we all couldve gone gate when we got the inbound call but wed all be bingo fuel by the time we got there if we did.

ps what do you guys think of an awacs with maybe 1 of us flying escort for it in phils next mission? we were blind for alarming parts last night! i can make the suggestion to phil if you like the idea
Wing Commander John (Scooby) Burton RAF Air UK

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Alien
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Re: tue 26/5 senaki op2 debreif/suggestions box

Post by Alien » 27 May 2020, 05:41

john (scooby) wrote:
27 May 2020, 03:32
how do you guys think we did as a group?
and what do i need to improve as lead?

dcs was playing silly buggers as always which delayed takeoff a little.
i felt we were pretty cohesive overall.
we broke orders when it became apparant that the mig 29s had broken through the cap but they were too close, was i late with that call?

sharky did well, staying with me and and going after the bombers too, we were far too late though through no fault of ours, maybe we all couldve gone gate when we got the inbound call but wed all be bingo fuel by the time we got there if we did.

ps what do you guys think of an awacs with maybe 1 of us flying escort for it in phils next mission? we were blind for alarming parts last night! i can make the suggestion to phil if you like the idea

As a group we did alright, John you were absolutely fine mate,
This mission isn't really the type of mission where you can have too much of a command and control as there were two elements with different objectives, once we are off the ground and heading to our respective waypoints it's on the lead of those elements to control, so nothing you did or could have done would have kept element two in the air other than our own personal skill, which in my case last night was severely lacking, Pongo did well to stay up having been WIA but was then taken our by a blue c/s, and Father was just unlucky

Sharky did do well before losing his stick to the puter gremlins, I had gremlins too with my comms, Lag was a bummer.

We got off the ground very late, we were still 11miles short of WP1 and climbing when it the fan,
Would an AWACS have helped us last night, I don't think it would have made that much difference tbh, we needed to be in the air much earlier and seeing those Migs at our 12's not at our 6's

You and Shaggy did very well, so with your 8 kills we all got one and a bit :lol: :lol:
Squadron Leader Shane "Alien" Cowan - RAF Air UK Xl (F) Squadron

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Mutley
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Re: tue 26/5 senaki op2 debreif/suggestions box

Post by Mutley » 27 May 2020, 07:01

well now i remember test flying this mission , orginaly the hornets were on cap weather or not they would have held back the Fighters long enough so you chaps could deal with the bombers i have no idea.

Its sounds like you had a hard descision to make whilst on the fly , split your forces to deal with fighters whilst you pres on and deal with the bombers. tough call mukka.

would have i done any different ? Nope you did the only locail course of action avaible to you which you all paid for. tough Break .

Hard descion to be made on the fly , tough call, dont beat ur self up over it. off corse it does help if each indivail unit actully does there assinded jobs for more than 60 secs , but that cant be helped just store it under hell yea that was fun and move on its a game after all .

Tough at the top is it not , with every ones game lives in your hand . :D :D
Squadron Leader Richard (Mutley) Keast - RAFAIRUK
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Father Cool
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Re: tue 26/5 senaki op2 debreif/suggestions box

Post by Father Cool » 27 May 2020, 07:10

Agreed, you could have done no more.
Flight Lieutenant Cavan "Father Cool" Millward
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Re: tue 26/5 senaki op2 debreif/suggestions box

Post by john (scooby) » 27 May 2020, 07:22

Mutley it is actually surprisingly busy doing your job and attempting to keep an overview of the bigger picture and tasking etc in your head at the same time lol
The discision was easy once i realised the migs had broken through the cap znd our 2nd flight were too close to run past them, the question is would you guys have faired better if id made that call earlier?
Ego massage isnt what im looking for merely an appraisal of what we as a group and me as the new leader got right/wrong and what we/i can do moving forward to improve.

Thanks for the input guys and the engagement gave me a few ideas for bvr/merge tactics.
The awacs wouldve helpdd me and sharky greatly because we were in amongst the bombers and yet still had totally blank scopes for alot of it, relying on vis and even irst sometimes to find targets, fortunately the tu22 is a smokey bugger. The awg9 is a blooody fickle beast
Il speak to phil about timings. Uzi 2 nevef got to use awacs because you guys got jumped early on, pongo did well and got unlucky too
Wing Commander John (Scooby) Burton RAF Air UK

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Re: tue 26/5 senaki op2 debreif/suggestions box

Post by Father Cool » 27 May 2020, 07:29

Yes I need my plane fitting with the armour that Pongo had.

Technician!!!!!! 🤣
Flight Lieutenant Cavan "Father Cool" Millward
RAFairUK - XI (F) squadron

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Re: tue 26/5 senaki op2 debreif/suggestions box

Post by Mutley » 27 May 2020, 07:45

dont forget people the mission builders have it very hard , its a game that runs corect if the timings are working ok , ie no tech issues no late take offs no other gremlins etc . i think that when i tested it the migs where 100 miles away and no where near myself which means i was able to shoot down the bombers at lesuire, i suspect that the fighters broke thru the cap and abanded their patrol routes hence they where on top of your route to the bombers.

Chaps take it easy its a game remember no real stick monkeys are atutly hurt during the making of these missions its not real chaps its a game. And as such as with all things computer wise things go wrong programes run amonk and things never go as planned, also the missions only work well if people listin to the briefs there are no cock ups and the game behaves its self yes i know its a rare thing but dont go blaming phil alot of things have to run together for a mission to work as discribed it only takes one thing out of place for the whole thing to break and send us all into the deck.
Squadron Leader Richard (Mutley) Keast - RAFAIRUK
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Re: tue 26/5 senaki op2 debreif/suggestions box

Post by Pongo » 27 May 2020, 09:03

I thought all the decisions made on the night in the heat of it all were the right ones guys. The situation changed and evolved quickly and the decisions that were made were made at the right time with the available information. I thought as a team we worked really well, yes we had to make visual contact a lot more than usual, but I put that down to deconflicting with blue forces as we knew there was a lot of us up there. When Uzi 2 flt engaged the migs, shane pushed off left to get an angle and I pushed into a combat spread which had me head on with two migs. One went after Shane as I couldn't get jester to lock anything up and it got Shane before I could slap it, then the other guy got on my ass as I tried to close the gap with Shane to cover him, but I had Shane visual for the whole fight. I wasn't letting the one who caught me with a glancing blow, as i broke at the last second, so once i regained control, I wheeled onto his 6 and shoved a heater up his arse. I had lost all my nav, targeting options including PAL and only had 1 heater left, so I decided as a lone wolf left airborne from Uzi 2 to head back to vaziani by dead reckoning to get a new bird and as I was circling to lose height near the end of rwy 13, an F16 slide in behind, which I ignore largely as I knew I was obviously not a mig and he was close enough to count the turkey feathers on my nozzles, and then he shot me. It was Sapper in his F16, but stuff happens and I am not sore about it, at least none of us did a blue on blue.

All in all fellas, it was a mission with some tough calls in it and Scoobs and Shane made a good job of leading their elements.

Plus, I am glad to finally get a kill for the Sqn 😎
Pilot Officer Steve "Pongo" Loates RAF Air UK - XI (F) Sqn

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Re: tue 26/5 senaki op2 debreif/suggestions box

Post by john (scooby) » 27 May 2020, 09:33

We were further south than expected because of the late take off, we never stood a chance of saving batumi for the same reason, its all a wip il have a chat with phil in the week and maybe tweak timings and/or triggers a little
Wing Commander John (Scooby) Burton RAF Air UK

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Re: tue 26/5 senaki op2 debreif/suggestions box

Post by Father Cool » 27 May 2020, 10:03

Yeah the cat does take a long while to get lined up and in the air.
Flight Lieutenant Cavan "Father Cool" Millward
RAFairUK - XI (F) squadron

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