Short Range Sam, AI use and info

[Duke]

Please see below some researched behavior of short range sam defences and how the AI will employ these systems against you. Some very notable things have been discovered such as the ZSU pre firing on you outside of its range, assuming this is to "track" its tracer fire like a real operator may do before turning on its radar tracking devices

Info on Short Range Sam and AAA systems, and how the AI engages you in fixed wing aircraft:

ZSU - 23 A, Shilka - Quad mounted 23mm AAA cannon
VERY FAST TURRET MOVEMENT LEFT RIGHT/UP DOWN
Will pre fire on you before it turns on its radar tracking device to gain better aim on you (Shown on your RWR as "A")
2000 ROUNDS AMMO before reload!
Main Threat of system is pre firing of rounds before its visible on your RWR

SA13, Strella - IR Guided missile launcher, x8 missiles (x4 then 7 minute reload)
VERY QUICK TURNING TURRET
Conventional lock by placing you in its lock "cone" like an AIM-9 then firing IR guided missile.
Will light up your RWR with 13 to track you, BUT will not give indication of missile launch, assume if you see "13" on RWR its already firing
Main Threat of system is No change on RWR tone when missile is fired

SA15, Tor - Conventional Radar Track, x8 missiles without reload,
Gives early indication of spike on your RWR as "15", as well as fast beeping RWR warning when missile is launched.
Main Threat of system is amount of ammo between reload and range, and smokeless missiles hard to see (after short launch)

SA19, Tunguska - (The mother of all nasty) - x2 30mm Cannons AND x8 optical guided missiles
Gives early indication of spike on RWR as "S6", BUT
No indication of missile being fired due to it being guided by optics from operator.
Main Threat of system is; everything! Missiles launched without notable change in RWR tone, Missiles smokeless and very hard to see, will engage with 30mm cannons if you come in close, all in all fairly terrifying!

[0405 Andrew]

Nice one Duke, I'm going to save that. Very clear and easy to use.

[shuggs]

Thanks for this Duke, really really helpful. So basically, if you see an SA 13, 19 or "S6" in your SA, just stay clear of its radius, would that be a safe bet?

[Flyco]

No, Shuggs. Fly an A-10 and kill it!

[Paul(Dragon)0043]

Quite right.

Paul

[Roon]

Very useful. Do you have max/min operating heights and ranges for these?

[Duke]

Very useful. Do you have max/min operating heights and ranges for these?

Minimum engagement height seems to generally be in the 5-10 metre range so they can pretty much engage you at any low altitude, max alt range seems very hit and miss depending on the dcs info compared to the real life machine. Generally anything over 12k seems safe from all sams and unsure about Shilka as haven't tested it fully. But given it can only engage to around 2 miles out I would say the same 2 mile altitude, around 10k feet

[Duke]

Thanks for this Duke, really really helpful. So basically, if you see an SA 13, 19 or "S6" in your SA, just stay clear of its radius, would that be a safe bet?

No unfortunately. As the info says the zsu will already be firing on you before you see the "A" in your rwr. So it's lethal if not seen first.

The 15 is the "safest" as it comes online early on your rwr so you can turn away and assess whether to engage or not,

The 13, if you see "13" on your rwr, flare and turn away it's already fired I would say, at least 1 maybe 2 or 3 missiles

If you see "S6" the 19 is about to fire its radio guided missiles, so get twisting and turning, flares seem fairly ineffective as it's guiding it's missile by remote

[Flyco]

SA-15. Up to 20,000 ft 6.5 nm
SA-19. Up to 20,000 ft 5 nm
SA-13. Up to 12,000 ft 3 nm
Shilka. Up to 8,000 ft 2 nm.

Unfortunately the first 2 will normally take out a Maverick fired at it. On the A-10 we generally fire 3-4 laser guided M282s, which swamp it.

The SA-13 and Shilka can be safely taken with a Mav or an M282, provided you can see it.

The SA-6 is an older system, we used to take them out by flying at them with a Mav loaded, and when it fires do a 90 degree turn and put out flares and chaff. Watch it and when you see the missile trail turn off after the decoys, continue your run in until you get close enough to fire the Mav. If you are mob-handle, you can speed it up by all flying from different directions.

As for min ht, that is dependent on the terrain. For anything other than dead flat, you can often fly in at ULL and when you see the missile launch, dodge behind a tree or below any hills. That is exciting, but often not successful.

All of the above becomes more difficult when you fly against a well laid out, multi-launcher system.

[Flyco]

Sorry, forgot about the IRS. They can often be defeated by flares and a sharp break, but it is spotting the launch that is the problem. Have someone watching and calling when he sees a firing; however, the trail is very short and the range close <3 nm. Why not use the missile launch warning to make the break and push the flares - oh, I forget, that is an A-10 bit of kit.