Mission Night 14 Apr 2020

[john (scooby)]

I love inquests.

Just remember the old fighter pilot saying about post training-flight debriefs:

"It doesn't matter who won the fight - it's who won the debrief that counts."

we arnt fighting though alan

[Richard Rodgers]

Good mission from my perspective Alan.

Paul was a little disappointed though that he couldn't find any Tunguskas where we were. Think you need to add a few with his name on.

Managed 3 kills at the armour WP prior to my DCS crash then managed to bag another bunch within the convoys once in the AO again.

Loved every minute Alan. Thanks to Paul and Luis for a three ship landing. I even managed it after partaking in a beer.

[Father Cool]

No fighting just healthy discussion to keep our blue ac safe, there were no blue on blues this week, or even near misses really.

Regarding the AIM 54. The issue with what you are suggesting Maggsy is that we only really fire when targets are under 50 miles, I personally prefer closer than that as the likelihood of hits on fighter ac over that range is greatly reduced. Over that and unless a huge target like a bomber the missile just heads off into the blue.

If you are suggesting that we cannot fire Phoenix's with blue ac within a 100nm range then it renders their use almost completely forbidden in our scenarios, I would then argue the same criteria for the AIM 120 as that missile is also pitbull/fire and forget with a range well in excess of what is normally our operating theatre.

I feel that the way around this is better inter flight comms regarding fox/SA calls and a certain level of trust in that the pilot firing the weapons has assessed the likelihood of blue on blue in a given situation.

As I said before the missiles that I think you were referring to were in the air a long time before you were anywhere near them and it was the F16's that altered course into their path. I would suggest based on the distance those Phoenix's had travelled that when fired there was no indication of them being any threat to your aircraft.

Heres a collection of snapshots showing what happened with the Aim 54s. I don't see that anyone was in any danger. The first one tracked the mig only and then ran out of juice. The two at the end fired by myself and Mutley never tracked the F16's at all. In fact Mutleys never tracked anything. Mine tried initially but once the Mig peeled away it flew straight and true at altitude. Mutleys did the same until it ran out of fuel and fell to the sea.

UZI Phoenix snapshots.zip

(8.91 MiB) Downloaded 115 times

All interesting stuff though.

Regards
FC

[oz555]

With reference to coordination and once each squadron is briefed and ready to go on SRS, might it be an idea for all flight leads to inhabit the same channel on TeamSpeak?

[Father Cool]

Is that not what we use 251.0 for though?

[maggsy]

I think this has progressed far enough an will agree to disagree, there is no lesson to be leant nothing bad happened

[Alien]

Comms, comms, comms, the one thing that some of us are forgetting or getting too excited about once in the air is to follow the correct procedure, other than your personal A/C it is probably the single most important aspect of any Mission.

Our Mission was to get to 35,000ft and head to WP3 via wp2 and provide CAP, we didn't do that until we'd mixed it around Sochi, which was not our Mission Brief. by the time we did get on CAP there were no further enemy aircraft to take on.

So to avoid any confusion in the next Mission, could we have a ' Do not engage until you're on CAP, or Go Wpns Free and start Milling.

I watched the Harriers after endex on Tacview and they were bloody brilliant, how they managed to get out of that furball of furballs was fantastic, well done boys.

Well done everybody, good mission.

[Father Cool]

Comms, comms, comms, the one thing that some of us are forgetting or getting too excited about once in the air is to follow the correct procedure, other than your personal A/C it is probably the single most important aspect of any Mission.

Our Mission was to get to 35,000ft and head to WP3 via wp2 and provide CAP, we didn't do that until we'd mixed it around Sochi, which was not our Mission Brief. by the time we did get on CAP there were no further enemy aircraft to take on.

So to avoid any confusion in the next Mission, could we have a ' Do not engage until you're on CAP, or Go Wpns Free and start Milling.

I watched the Harriers after endex on Tacview and they were bloody brilliant, how they managed to get out of that furball of furballs was fantastic, well done boys.

Well done everybody, good mission.

Whilst I 100% agree with the sentiment there Shane, part of our CAP brief was to protect the A10's from enemy aircraft. After reviewing the Tacview earlier it's clear that if we had ignored the a/c at Sochi, the A10 guys would have waded straight into an ambush.

What I would suggest is that we have comms to all aircraft when encountering holstiles not in your current brief. That way offers of assistance can be granted by the aircraft already engaged.

I would also suggest that we resurrect the Tacview brief after the missions that we used to do to allow all parties to discuss any feeling, tactics or shortfalls at the time.

[Alien]

Comms, comms, comms, the one thing that some of us are forgetting or getting too excited about once in the air is to follow the correct procedure, other than your personal A/C it is probably the single most important aspect of any Mission.

Our Mission was to get to 35,000ft and head to WP3 via wp2 and provide CAP, we didn't do that until we'd mixed it around Sochi, which was not our Mission Brief. by the time we did get on CAP there were no further enemy aircraft to take on.

So to avoid any confusion in the next Mission, could we have a ' Do not engage until you're on CAP, or Go Wpns Free and start Milling.

I watched the Harriers after endex on Tacview and they were bloody brilliant, how they managed to get out of that furball of furballs was fantastic, well done boys.

Well done everybody, good mission.

Whilst I 100% agree with the sentiment there Shane, part of our CAP brief was to protect the A10's from enemy aircraft. After reviewing the Tacview earlier it's clear that if we had ignored the a/c at Sochi, the A10 guys would have waded straight into an ambush.

What I would suggest is that we have comms to all aircraft when encountering holstiles not in your current brief. That way offers of assistance can be granted by the aircraft already engaged.

I would also suggest that we resurrect the Tacview brief after the missions that we used to do to allow all parties to discuss any feeling, tactics or shortfalls at the time.

Yep, you're bang on mate, how could I forget the A10's, seeing as SRS comms works well now and we were having good A/C to A/C internal comms, I'd say only the Leads in Flights / Squadrons should have comms on for eg;251.000 , it's then passed on to the elements of each flight via their respective Lead. that way an element can be sent to help out while the rest of the flight can get on CAP and or.
Tacview endex would be good.

[oz555]

Is that not what we use 251.0 for though?

I agree, but with an ever increasing player count comms are becoming more busy and complicated. I was thinking it might be a good idea to have an always on, uninterrupted non brevity TS comms channel for leads only, to be used to keep the mission on track.