Re: Zapad 2021 7th December

[0405 Andrew]

No problem, in future it would be really useful if squadrons could add their own tankers with the returned miz.
I don't think we'd be overrun with them. They can always be added with a trigger to keep their spawn close.

[Duke]

I can potentially do awacs more often than fly and re-assign people if needed to other areas. I only couldn't do awacs yesterday as got home way to late. I have been moving flights around in the past to try to clear enemy qra etc, can easily do the same for ground targets if people don't mind the fact that I'm playing god a little with game master which removes some of the realism

[Chris]

@Gizzy I passed your message on and the reply was “I’ll send him my address”. And of course “thank you”

Thanks Andy... appreciated - I'm still having nightmares and have superglued my trigger so it will take 20lbs pull to break stiction, that should make me think twice or perhaps that should be thrice...

[Flyco]

I am not sure about the usefulness of having a 'manned' AWACS. As a 'target' rather than a 'shooter', I am very happy with the current Auto-AWACs. It provides continuous (and near foolproof) information about impending threats from about 100 nm right up to 'Goodnight Vienna'. I really cannot see a single individual (sorry Duke - no matter how sharp you are), being able to provide this level of service and vector a number of interceptors onto targets at the same time.

As I say, I would rather listen out and call (on 251.0) for help if it appears necessary. A simple "Any Blue interceptor near Bulls 300 at 40 nm miles - A-10 requires assistance" should do the trick, providing CAP ac are listening on that frequency. More details can then be passed if any nearby (and helpful) Blue fighter in the area responds. It will, however, require an element of self-discipline not to block the frequency with mundane garbage - described as "Polish Chit-Chat" in that well-known film.

[Grillman]

What speed would you like it?

Anything between 250 and 270 kts indicated will work at that altitude

If it’s above A28, Mach 0.74-.76 is fine

Thanks again

Grillman

[Danny]

Hi Chris,

I'm sorry that my post upset you so much but I believe I am entitled to an opinion, it doesn't agree with yours and that can't be helped. If the majority feel it is the way forward that is fine by me, but personally I have reservations.

I also apologize for calling you mate. I use it all the time at work, here on the forums, PM's, and on 3 Sqn Discord. I use it as a term of friendship, incorrectly it would appear.

Perhaps "dig" was the wrong word. Factually incorrect would be better. I don't know about other Sqn's but you have never been to a 3 Sqn briefing, and know nothing of our planning methods. You may not set out to 'do' 'digs' or other such silly nonsense generally used to 'score points' or attempt to undermine people, but your statement

We tried this once, it failed. It failed at SQN level because the information at COs level did not reach the pilot writing SQN briefing.

undermined me, as CO, and marginalizes the hours of work I and other 3 Sqns planners put in to make mission night a success.

[Hendo]

I have lotATC and wouldn’t mind assisting Duke with his AWACS work. Then there are two controllers. A human controller can be a very valuable addition to fighters doing CAP and help with their SA. AI awacs only gives warnings when enemies are in the area, instead of actually controlling aircraft in intercepts.

[Flyco]

The problem with a live AWACs, so far as the A-10s are concerned, is that we lose the DCS auto reporting which is quite critical for us. I suspect that you would also need separate frequencies for each AWACs operator. For real, in an AWACs aircraft there could be a dozen or more operators, each dedicated to specific areas/units/operations.

I only know, that when we have used a 'live' AWACs in the past, we have lost that continual oversight of threats approaching us. In this latest mission it was available. This allowed me, on my own, in an A-10 at 2-8,000 ft, to keep a tally on the bad guys and to call in a fighter when things began to get nasty. Will came in response to my call, and the Mig-29 disappeared; whether as a result of Will's intervention or by co-incidence I cannot tell.

Amended

Further to the above, I have reviewed the Tacview, and that clearly shows Will and his wingman coming to my rescue. Unfortunately the Mig took out the other A-10 just before the Will and his mate arrived, destroyes the Mig, and saved my arse.

[Duke]

Simple solution is 97 can use 251, everyone monitors 251 once airborne anyway and I tune to 3 squadron, 892 squadron and 11 squadron, then I have one radio left on awacs srs panel to speak either to ocu or 1 squadron depending on who's flying or at most threat. That way 97 can listen to ai as much as they need and I can properly vector fighters to enemy aircraft, which has worked very well so far and not received any feedback as yet from any cap flight they'd rather have the ai doing it than a human. Hendo can easily do atc with lotac as he's very proficient with airfield comms and very calm in general with comms/orders. I don't foresee any issue with that set up should myself and Hendo want to do these roles??