Hi Alan,
As I was unavailable for the briefing, and things may have changed, my information is from Frag V.2
97 Sqn were planned to be airborne first, followed by 41 and then 3.
Operation Abii 15/03/22
Re: Operation Abii 15/03/22
Wing Commander Andrew 'Danny' Daniel - RAF Air UK
- 0405 Andrew
- Site Admin
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- Location: Goring, Oxfordshire
Re: Operation Abii 15/03/22
I shall attach the miz from last night to the first post in the forum. Then all can see why something went wrong from my end and maybe help out.
I tried to make the mission a little more atmospheric by having ground troops shooting at each other when you crossed the front lines, I thought it would show up well in the dark conditions, did anyone see any ground troops engaging each other?
Alan raises some important points regarding planning missions and briefing in an Op Abii thread on 97 sqn forum, namely " notably a lack of details about where everyone else was and what they were planned to do.." With regards to the mission commander role, do we try to go down that route again? Would that have helped?
Last night's mission was a group of individual missions bundled together on one map. It has been suggested in the past and today from 41F and 3F that missions that require coordination would be preferred. I would agree with this aim. It's just how we get there, how it is planned and executed. And of course some inspiration in mission design.
Squadron mission planners Please help by answering some direct questions. Please just answer yes or no, Y/N we can elaborate further after these questions:
With the information provided in the Frag, Check miz, forum notes can you get a picture of the other squadrons flights?
1f:
3F:
97:
41:
11F:
892:
60:
Would verbally discussing all flights in a meeting be needed to get a clearer picture? Bear in mind that the initial frag and miz is sent out on weekend 1, Sqn miz files should be sent back by the end of weekend 2.
1f:
3F:
97:
41:
11F:
892:
60:
Do you have the time and commitment to make the meeting for all squadrons?
1f:
3F:
97:
41:
11F:
892:
60:
If two squadrons are coordinating on one target, can they arrange their own discussion independently?
1f:
3F:
97:
41:
11F:
892:
60:
I tried to make the mission a little more atmospheric by having ground troops shooting at each other when you crossed the front lines, I thought it would show up well in the dark conditions, did anyone see any ground troops engaging each other?
Alan raises some important points regarding planning missions and briefing in an Op Abii thread on 97 sqn forum, namely " notably a lack of details about where everyone else was and what they were planned to do.." With regards to the mission commander role, do we try to go down that route again? Would that have helped?
Last night's mission was a group of individual missions bundled together on one map. It has been suggested in the past and today from 41F and 3F that missions that require coordination would be preferred. I would agree with this aim. It's just how we get there, how it is planned and executed. And of course some inspiration in mission design.
Squadron mission planners Please help by answering some direct questions. Please just answer yes or no, Y/N we can elaborate further after these questions:
With the information provided in the Frag, Check miz, forum notes can you get a picture of the other squadrons flights?
1f:
3F:
97:
41:
11F:
892:
60:
Would verbally discussing all flights in a meeting be needed to get a clearer picture? Bear in mind that the initial frag and miz is sent out on weekend 1, Sqn miz files should be sent back by the end of weekend 2.
1f:
3F:
97:
41:
11F:
892:
60:
Do you have the time and commitment to make the meeting for all squadrons?
1f:
3F:
97:
41:
11F:
892:
60:
If two squadrons are coordinating on one target, can they arrange their own discussion independently?
1f:
3F:
97:
41:
11F:
892:
60:
0405 ANDREW
Tuesday Mission group lead
"Andrew, you are right"
Flyco: 28 Jul 2021, 12:50
Tuesday Mission group lead
"Andrew, you are right"
Flyco: 28 Jul 2021, 12:50
Re: Operation Abii 15/03/22
The implication from the statement that each ac bundle was a totally separate package implies that there was no CAP provided for the A-10s. If that is so, we should have been advised. I actually called for CAP when we were first illuminated by the Mig-29s, and got a response. I cannot recall from whom, but there were F-16s around very shortly after.
Wing Commander Alan Johnson - RAFAir UK
- 0405 Andrew
- Site Admin
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- Location: Goring, Oxfordshire
Re: Operation Abii 15/03/22
On this mission that is correct. No CAP. I agree I should have told you.
There was meant to be no air threat that would reach your area. The red air that flew tandem with you were set as a bounce for 41f, I had programmed them not to attack bombers. I appreciate you were not to know that. They were snuck in at the last minute after speaking with Ade.
There was meant to be no air threat that would reach your area. The red air that flew tandem with you were set as a bounce for 41f, I had programmed them not to attack bombers. I appreciate you were not to know that. They were snuck in at the last minute after speaking with Ade.
0405 ANDREW
Tuesday Mission group lead
"Andrew, you are right"
Flyco: 28 Jul 2021, 12:50
Tuesday Mission group lead
"Andrew, you are right"
Flyco: 28 Jul 2021, 12:50
Re: Operation Abii 15/03/22
Well those red interlopers got their just deserts. No 97 don't take prisoners!
Wing Commander Alan Johnson - RAFAir UK
Re: Operation Abii 15/03/22
Andrew
With the information provided in the Frag, Check miz, forum notes can you get a picture of the other squadrons flights?
1f:
3F: Y
97:
41:
11F:
892:
60:
Would verbally discussing all flights in a meeting be needed to get a clearer picture? Bear in mind that the initial frag and miz is sent out on weekend 1, Sqn miz files should be sent back by the end of weekend 2.
1f:
3F: N
97:
41:
11F:
892:
60:
Do you have the time and commitment to make the meeting for all squadrons?
1f:
3F: N
97:
41:
11F:
892:
60:
If two squadrons are coordinating on one target, can they arrange their own discussion independently?
1f:
3F: Y
97:
41:
11F:
892:
60:
Plenty to elaborate later…
With the information provided in the Frag, Check miz, forum notes can you get a picture of the other squadrons flights?
1f:
3F: Y
97:
41:
11F:
892:
60:
Would verbally discussing all flights in a meeting be needed to get a clearer picture? Bear in mind that the initial frag and miz is sent out on weekend 1, Sqn miz files should be sent back by the end of weekend 2.
1f:
3F: N
97:
41:
11F:
892:
60:
Do you have the time and commitment to make the meeting for all squadrons?
1f:
3F: N
97:
41:
11F:
892:
60:
If two squadrons are coordinating on one target, can they arrange their own discussion independently?
1f:
3F: Y
97:
41:
11F:
892:
60:
Plenty to elaborate later…
“Suivez le Sapeur”
Squadron Leader Andy “Sapper” Bellingall - RAF Air UK
3(F) Sqn 2IC
Squadron Leader Andy “Sapper” Bellingall - RAF Air UK
3(F) Sqn 2IC
- 0405 Andrew
- Site Admin
- Posts: 2138
- Joined: 09 Jan 2020, 15:51
- Location: Goring, Oxfordshire
Re: Operation Abii 15/03/22
Thanks Sapper.
0405 ANDREW
Tuesday Mission group lead
"Andrew, you are right"
Flyco: 28 Jul 2021, 12:50
Tuesday Mission group lead
"Andrew, you are right"
Flyco: 28 Jul 2021, 12:50
Re: Operation Abii 15/03/22
With the information provided in the Frag, Check miz, forum notes can you get a picture of the other squadrons flights?
1f: Y
3F: Y
97:
41:
11F:
892:
60:
Would verbally discussing all flights in a meeting be needed to get a clearer picture? Bear in mind that the initial frag and miz is sent out on weekend 1, Sqn miz files should be sent back by the end of weekend 2.
1f: N
3F: N
97:
41:
11F:
892:
60:
Do you have the time and commitment to make the meeting for all squadrons?
1f: Not at present
3F: N
97:
41:
11F:
892:
60:
If two squadrons are coordinating on one target, can they arrange their own discussion independently?
1f: Y
3F: Y
97:
41:
11F:
892:
60:
1f: Y
3F: Y
97:
41:
11F:
892:
60:
Would verbally discussing all flights in a meeting be needed to get a clearer picture? Bear in mind that the initial frag and miz is sent out on weekend 1, Sqn miz files should be sent back by the end of weekend 2.
1f: N
3F: N
97:
41:
11F:
892:
60:
Do you have the time and commitment to make the meeting for all squadrons?
1f: Not at present
3F: N
97:
41:
11F:
892:
60:
If two squadrons are coordinating on one target, can they arrange their own discussion independently?
1f: Y
3F: Y
97:
41:
11F:
892:
60:
Air Commodore Matt Purnell - RAF Air UK
CO 1(F) Squadron
CO 1(F) Squadron
- 0405 Andrew
- Site Admin
- Posts: 2138
- Joined: 09 Jan 2020, 15:51
- Location: Goring, Oxfordshire
Re: Operation Abii 15/03/22
Thanks Matt.
0405 ANDREW
Tuesday Mission group lead
"Andrew, you are right"
Flyco: 28 Jul 2021, 12:50
Tuesday Mission group lead
"Andrew, you are right"
Flyco: 28 Jul 2021, 12:50