Full circle over many years….. Monitor/TIR > VR > Monitor/TIR – an opinion.

[Chris]

Full circle over many years….. Monitor/TIR > VR > Monitor/TIR – an opinion.

I’ve been engaged in DCS for many years and VR since the release of the Rift. I was never one to say VR is ‘great, never going to use monitors again’ but as much as the immersion factor was high there are down sides, many that subtract to immersion even.

When the Rift came out I was running a pretty fast (for the time) CPU and a RTX 970ti. I ordered the Rift from Amazon, tried it for a week and sent it back as having unusable resolution. Everyone else said it was great hmmmm. ordered it again and sent it back the masses continued to say how good it was so I tried a third time some months later and kept it. The trick was to learn to live with the terrible poor resolution and blurred gauges but it was fun with choppers.

Later an OC 10900K CPU, RTX2080ti and HP reverb G1 then the G2 changed things some. Initially it was wow!!!! BUT then when you used the high poly count excellent Tomcat, AH64 Syria Map, Channel map etc and it was back to fiddling with the figures. Dumb down the DCS graphic parameters and reduce SteamVR resolution to 60% for some maps / AC and 80% for others certainly helped. It was OK but not THAT good. I always seemed to want more.

Crypto mining has crashed and Nvidea’s 30 series are dropping in price and I could pick up a RTX 3090 for 1K£ instead of 2K£. This would allow a better FPS but only around 10-15 (current settings)with CPU being bottlenecked and then I'd probably lock it to 45 for motion smoothing.... I'm getting 30-40 now low and 45 higher up...

With VR I always found the use of the mouse or Voice Attack an immersion killer. Over time I have amassed Virpil Throttles, Panel, Collective and TM MFDs. In VR I can just using see and use controls that are not immediately at my fingertips by removing the G2 nose cover but it is still not great.

The last 3 weeks I have been experimenting in depth with Shaders, OpenXR runtimes etc and to be honest they all have some good points BUT with my CPU / GPU SteamVR returned the best FPS with stability by far...

I have a Predator 35” 3440 x 1440 monitor bought for a song several years ago,,, Popped on TrackIR again, put every single DCS graphic parameter to it’s highest setting bar MSAA which I had at 2 (being 4 made no difference due to monitor resolution), popped a AH64 (as just released, a real FPS killer) in the Syria Map, ramp start and fired it up.

FPS was in the region of 80-90 on the ground at the heliport, I was stunned by the sharpness of the gauges and writing in the cockpit displays, the helo reacted to control inputs instantaneously and so much smoother…. My flying this unfamiliar bird had just improved considerably ha ha.. Flying low over buildings, camps and all the cool stuff in Syria map highlighted how detailed and clear it is - I never realised how detailed the map graphics can be with all DCS setting totally maxed. I honestly was amazed. Jumping onto the Caucasus map was similar, boy has this map changed and improved over the years..

Sure in the past I had used the monitor and flew mostly after using the ME but left the system setting as for VR and not totally maxed.

Now, G2 is reserved for WW2 birds where you fly by the seat of the pants and if you dumb down SteamVR enough you will eventually be able to see the enemy…. And the monitor + trackIR will wear the crown for several years... I think.

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[Wee Neal 0414]

Chris,
I don’t disagree or have a contrary view, which I know will confound you somewhat

Personally with my rig (i9 9900k, 2080, DOF reality, BMW 1 series seat!, Jetseat, tactile transducers, Virpil collective, joystick and G2); I am teleported into an alternative reality when I fly. I also use point Control finger things, which allow a reasonable interaction with the VR cockpit. Bear in mind that I only now fly the AH64, and spend my time pissing around with MOOSE and writing training maps for the Apache and flying; my life is content. Not trouble free for sure, I have on average 35 FPS on the 60Sqn training maps on Cyprus, which sometimes creeps up to 45 FPS.

For me using the Open XR increased my FPS by about 10% (non scientific) but increased clarity significantly for the terrain. Previously in a time long ago, I constructed a “replica” A10 cockpit and built panels and had a 180Deg curved screen with 3 projectors; used warping software. I also used Helios. This was great, initially my projectors were very poor resolution, I changed to 1080p projectors and could read most things.

I then tried VR and after that changed my rig to the current. I have lots of boxes of panels now!

Would I go back? No. I accept the disadvantages for the advantages.

Neal

[Chris]

Chris,
I don’t disagree or have a contrary view, which I know will confound you somewhat

Oh no! Perfectly understandable mate, it's all very subjective and for me changes each time ED or DEVs play with their polys...

For me using the Open XR increased my FPS by about 10% (non scientific) but increased clarity significantly for the terrain.

Funnily enough it was OpenXR. Syria map and AH64 which highlighted things and made the call for me.... At Naqoura ramp start, OpenXR defaults, around 30 fps was got, okay certainly not smooth no matter how much tweaking.. I could reduce DCS graphic parameters somewhat but to the detriment of the screen text sharpness but swapping between VR & Monitor the slow responsiveness of the AC in VR in low 'n slow mode was very appparrent...

Would I go back? No. I accept the disadvantages for the advantages.

Thats what it is all about, being content with your current configuration....everyone's head is in a slightly different place and there are an awful lot of tinkerers out there playing with an multitude of parameters and kit....ha ha

[Spanner_]

I was similarly disappointed with the HTC Vive. I kept it because I enjoy other VR games, but I benched it for sims very early on and stuck with Track IR.

You guys might want to have a go with OpenVR FSR. https://github.com/fholger/openvr_fsr
(Or the newer 'performance toolkit' which has some other gizmos in it as well: https://github.com/fholger/vrperfkit)

It implements AI upscaling so you can get better frames by reducing the original render resolution and then uses some novel techniques to fill in the gaps. From some videos I've seen, it's surprisingly good for natural scenes. No idea how well it will handle text / gauges. Haven't tried it personally but if you're in to VR, you're used to being a guinea pig so do your worst

When we can do 4k per eye (or proper dynamic foveal rendering) @ 90 fps then I'll be back in a VR cockpit in no time. The lack of resolution is actually less of an issue for me personally, but the choppy frame rate is what I can't handle, even with 'smoothing'. I guess I move my head too much and I'm too used to 144Hz for twitchy FPS games so any judder just feels horrible (and often nausea inducing).

[Roon]

I'm currently using a Pimax 8kX on a 3080ti card and am running 45fps on all maps and aircraft using the PiTool smart smoothing.

I've recently put OpenXR into use and I'm not seeing much difference to SteamVR.

Overall it's nice and smooth, graphics are clear (gauges etc), textures all at high. It's been expensive getting there but I think it's been worth it as it's used almost every day.

I did love the 4k screen (42") and trackir for it's lack of faff! Always crystal, immediate and you could drink a cup of tea on the quiet stretches. It's always there in reserve!

[0405 Andrew]

Come on, if you're flying on a screen that's just gaming.
VR is simming.

If you're drinking tea or eating your dinner, you're really not immersing yourself in to DCS.
And if you're spluttering your cup of tea out with indignation, while flying, and surfing the internet reading this, shame on you!

(This is all said with tongue in cheek, (just thought I'd get some traffic through the forums!))

[Flyco]

Total nonsense, Andrew. I have spent hundreds of hours eating my dinner and drinking my coffee at 20,000 ft in my C-130! And listening to the BBC World Service news. And that is without mentioning the use of the Elsan! Oh! I just did.

[0405 Andrew]

I stand corrected.

[Chris]

I've been about abit in DCS, some say too long, and tried most of everything over the years, perhaps too much tinkering with the nut and bolts, lua's and mods....

Wee Neals comment to me the other week asking if I had I tried OpenXR yet as he had good success with it caused me to tinker again. Well I did try it, a lot and basically it either made no difference of if you pushed the parameters thins went off piste quickly mainly in helos and rotor blade shadows..... to the extent that white fog began appearing which is generally a sign of head tracking code not keeping up..... and this did finalise chain of thought I was having that perhaps it would be more enjoyable with the SW screen and actually quickly engaging with the huge clatter of knobs, switches, sliders and stuff that I have bolted on over the years..... hence my 'opinion' post here and in ED's forum to see if others had found the same....

To be short, once you cull the 'fanboy' of this and that from the ED's responses no one of experience had really came to the same conclusion, nor did anyone here... hmmmm

I began some further reading on OpenVR runtimes and in particular one small line in OpenXR installation that suggests running a repair and ensure the option of removing unnecessary files is engaged. Well, I had not engaged that last bit. Sure ran the repair but that was all.

I have time I thought, so why not give it another go.... just in case... First I just did the repair and installed OpenXR and the Toolkit App etc which again not much difference. Digging deeper it seems that SteamVR was still running on my system even thought he runtime was OpenXR... so perhaps DCS > SteamVR > OpenXR > Device... or something strange was a possibility. Certainly the SteamVR Video resolution slider still had an effect... default is around 3160x3088 and I normally run at 80%. the Steam figures are weird - a barrel distortion thing apparently)

So uninstalled all things OpenXR, repair, this time engaging the tickbox to remove any junk files (DCS Update Utility - Skatezilla) and reinstalled. Hmmmm... Apache hot start on Syria Heliport was returning 45 - 55 with motion smoothing on and a tadge sharpness in the toolkit. Went for a jolly, no side view judders, in fact everything was remarkably clear and crisp...

Screwed up DCS systems to mostly high bar water and MSSA on 2 and on Instant Action 10 seconds after spawn these FPS figures were returned
Caucasus F14B 52 - F18C 60 - Hot start on SuperCarrier 49
Mauranasis F18C 55

Best VR figures I've ever had with MSSA x2 and all graphics on HIGH... terrain was extremely clear and flying s CAW mission last night other LEAD / WING easy to see against terrain..

[Flyco]

Despite, my earlier quips, I have to agree that a large screen backed up by Track-IR, and a Helios display is my preference. Here is a shot showing how it looks.

I have also built in about 50% of the A-10 switches, although these do date from when the A-10, was the only DCS ac worth flying. That said many of the ‘hard-wired’ controls are usable in other aircraft, particularly for the radios. I can find and retune a radio without looking away from the screen, and I also use the controls such as Flaps, Gear etc.

The screen is set up so that it is 1:1 with real life, and the Track_IR has a dead zone, to allow me to look across the full screen, before it starts to move off. That said, I do use Track-IR, to look sideways and behind, which is essential, since my neck started to seize up.

The 42” screen, runs at 3840 x 2160, at 60Hz, with a frame rate that, so far has not dropped below 40Hz+. The Lower (Helios), screen is, of course, touch sensitive, so that I can operate any control by touching the screen. I find that a little ‘reality breaking’ but it does not detract significantly from the immersion.

Still ironing out the bugs, but I reckon it will outlast me!